00:00:00:00 - 00:00:49:12
Joining us today is a very good friend of mine and our special guest, Lauren Ross, founder of Transformational Heart Centered Life Coaching. So after spending more than 30 years in corporate as a servant leader, guiding people through personal and professional transformation, Lauren recently started her new venture as a life coach. In her coaching, Lauren takes a curated and holistic wellness approach including breathwork, reiki, mediation, meditation and food psychology to support women facing separation and divorce in getting clarity and creating a life they love.
00:00:49:15 - 00:01:23:10
Lauren and I met in our coaching practice and program, and today she's joining me to share her divorce journey, specifically. Hi, Lauren. Hi there. Thank you so much for, just creating this this circle here of, support and services. And I'm ready to be here, so thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Always. So, Gracious. And I really appreciate that.
00:01:23:12 - 00:01:47:16
so we're going to dive in and, let's start here and see where it goes. So my first invitation is, if you're open to share and tell about about tell us about your divorce journey, when it started and how it came about and how long were you married?
00:01:47:19 - 00:02:25:11
Okay. to begin with, I wanted to make sure that I lay the groundwork that, I am not an advocate of separations or divorces. If anything, I'm a strong advocate of helping. whether it was my former employees or, friends. I think being in limbo or a state of, of indecisiveness is like purgatory. Not making a decision is a decision in itself.
00:02:25:11 - 00:02:54:01
But when you're, when you don't have all the, the, the clarity, I think it's just gets very muddied. So the other thing is that I take commitment really seriously. I, I was in my role for, my corporate job for over 30 years. That's kind of, like, unheard of. But the cool thing about that was that there was, a variety of different things, different positions in different locations.
00:02:54:03 - 00:03:28:12
And I was married legally for over 30 years. And, I was always in very interested in, personal development. And I started my holistic journey and learning probably about over 15 years ago. And I think that when you go through and one partner is interested in personal development and the other individual is the path did not converge, if you will.
00:03:28:15 - 00:04:01:02
So, like others, I didn't I mean, I had kids, we both had beautiful kids. I didn't stay into in the marriage, because of the kids. We really wanted to work towards that. And more and more, it just kind of became, clearer to me that it would, it would probably take a a course of miracles, if you will, for things to, to work out and for us to come back together.
00:04:01:07 - 00:04:30:11
It wasn't until the 11th hour where, where my now, ex decided to go to couple counseling. And at that point it was and I, I've, I've asked for a couple counseling for, for my birthdays, for our anniversaries and things like that, but it just it never happened until the very 11th hour. And and at that point, what does that mean?
00:04:30:13 - 00:04:57:04
What does the 11th hour. And I was like when I was done. Yeah. And the like. Yeah. So, and I was really upfront, I said, you know, we've been down this path for so long that I don't know if, if even couple counseling is going to turn things around. I would prefer that we go to a couple counseling so that you, you have issues that you need to work with.
00:04:57:07 - 00:05:29:03
I have my own issues. But don't just go to save the marriage. So I didn't want it to be an if then and and oh if we do this our marriage we saved or we'd stay together. Things would need to change. so that was pretty much how things got started. And so when did I decide I, I think I asked for couple counseling.
00:05:29:05 - 00:06:02:28
Probably about my 20th anniversary. So that was more than ten years ago. Yeah. that was roughly about ten years. And, and then. I know I played a role in things not working out. I started to travel more frequently in my job. And when you have things that kind of, keep you occupied. It was status quo.
00:06:03:00 - 00:06:29:07
could also be deadly, right? I mean, so that was how, I kept myself busy and we had our own interests, and like I said, it just didn't. It didn't merged to the extent of it was going to be a, a a strong partnership. And, so, so that that was an it was kind of an easy situation, right?
00:06:29:07 - 00:07:03:24
When you're busy with something and work is always a really great excuse because it seems to be purposeful. So, his job was, was, was somewhat busy and he's, he's a techie, so self-developed or a personal development for him is reading, technical books. Very smart man. Self-taught in a lot of things. And my and my personal development is, you know, let's find out our five languages of love.
00:07:03:26 - 00:07:34:29
Yeah. It's like heart to heart there. Yeah. yeah. So, I think it just became more and more evident that we're, we're different, you know, our past. we're we're going down the very different path. And, I think that one of the things where I kept to asking myself, what's the reason for staying together?
00:07:35:02 - 00:08:15:03
And I, I continued with my one on one counseling and therapy. And And I think that when you're not able to come up with some of the answers where is this a person that I would want and be proud of for my kids to be married to. And so whatever the answer is if that was that was the the telling point for me, that was it was time that we were probably better, as co-parenting.
00:08:15:06 - 00:09:01:11
You know, versus being married. And. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. It's it's interesting, in the sense that sometimes we our work become that we, we be married to our work. There is that point, but it also sounds like, I know a little bit about your story because we chatted about it. last year, I think, you mentioned to that there was a long period of time where you had this thought or this doubt about the longevity or your commitment about the marriage, but it was a long time coming until you decide, okay, there is sounds like there is a, a awakening moment when you said, now this is not going to
00:09:01:11 - 00:09:27:25
work. So tell us a little bit more about that period of where you you said you were in limbo and making that big decision because it's a huge decision. And, it sounds like it's more than ten years when you ask for marriage counseling. And, the other party didn't think it's important while you were continue investing in your own journey of development.
00:09:27:27 - 00:10:11:29
So how was that journey like? In looking back, when you do personal development, it's hard, tough work on yourself. So once again, the effort and the energy I put into it so that I can find out, who I am and, and be able to show up the best version of myself, if you will. And so that was that was a, a keen interest of mine because I didn't like being in limbo.
00:10:12:00 - 00:10:45:14
I didn't. one of the things that was kind of an awakening call was, I was nursing my husband at that point. He had a couple of operations, and then, my body crashed, and he wasn't there for me. and I don't think he knew I was sick. and, And I was, as I was, I was actually off work.
00:10:45:14 - 00:11:12:01
I was on a medical leave, so I and and there wasn't much conversation, and I just thought that was so interesting. Like, this is the person I'm married to, and, there's no offer of tea. Can I bring you some tea? If you're not feeling well? So it was just very bizarre. And I was, And granted, I, there was a lot of self-blame.
00:11:12:03 - 00:11:49:00
I kept on saying, gosh, I must be a really, you know, terrible wife for, you know, for, my husband not wanting to, take care of me when I wouldn't be sick and, and during that moment, of recovery. I just had this dream that, my goodness, if my significant other that I'm married to isn't able to take care of me.
00:11:49:03 - 00:12:22:15
I don't I. Yeah, yeah. What should I do? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what is this for? Yeah, exactly. It was a dream. And then I was speechless. It was just the the the oddest thing. And, What what made it difficult was that, he's also a, a a extreme introvert. So he didn't really have any outside, connections or community.
00:12:22:17 - 00:12:58:05
And, and then there's an age difference between us of just nine years. And when he was going through his surgeries, which were, it's it was hernia operations. he kept on telling me that his other ailments. Was going to impair him so much, where basically it was a it was kind of like, like medical hostage. It was.
00:12:58:05 - 00:13:24:03
I felt like I was in this emotional hostage of of here's what's wrong with me. I you need to stay and basically carry out your vows. That was the other thing where if we all read our vows word for word, and I don't know if there's very many people that would stay in a marriage and still be happy and satisfied in the marriage.
00:13:24:09 - 00:13:51:24
Those are really tough vows to live up to my two people. And so for a long period of time and they both evolved and yeah, without checking in with each other, again and again frequently, you know, time changes and you change. Yeah, absolutely. Marriage is hard. Yeah. Marriage is hard. Yeah. And so, so I had the the the hostage.
00:13:51:27 - 00:14:20:06
I don't know what else to call it, but I had that going on, I felt guilt. I and self-blame. And then I felt sorry for for him as well because he didn't have anyone. and at the same time, I felt an incredible amount of, of, of pressure because I was kind of like everything to him.
00:14:20:09 - 00:14:59:22
Yeah. That's why I was encourage him. Please seek a counselor. That could be your buddy system of anything you need to unload and and and talk to to someone. So, the question that I, I kept asking myself, have I done everything I can? Did I give it my all and, And when when the question came up about, is this a life partner that I would be proud of for my kids to, you know, and I didn't get a defined yes to that.
00:14:59:24 - 00:15:23:23
Yeah. And, and when it was time to tell my kids, the our kids are very smart. They pick up on things they may not tell us, but they pick up on things. And one of my kids says, mom, I don't know how long. I don't know how you how you stayed in the marriage. I don't know why you waited so long.
00:15:23:25 - 00:15:57:15
so it was, it was a culmination of things. So, when you're, when, when your head feels like, okay, you're ready to make a decision. But if your heart and soul isn't there, it's hard to take that first step. Yeah. And and, and I also think timing is everything. I, I, I truly believe that I am always protected and guided.
00:15:57:18 - 00:16:28:11
Yeah. There was a lesson for me, you know, in this experience and and I and the other thing is that there are very few people that I've spoken to where, when they've made the decision to part ways, they don't regret it. They, they, they feel like they've made the right choices just based upon, you know, Monday morning quarterback, if you will.
00:16:28:11 - 00:16:50:23
It's like, okay, you know what? Yeah, this was the right choice. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's leaving grown Groundhog Day and over and over again for so long and it's fun. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I think it would be very helpful. Not that if you're in this situation, should I stay or should I go, that you should choose to leave?
00:16:50:24 - 00:17:21:00
It really depends. But I think, a lot of people would, find really helpful to hearing how you make your decision. It sounds like more and more you got clear that what you were looking for is that, mutual committed. in this partnership with you, I. We should be in service to each other while you were, providing that service.
00:17:21:00 - 00:17:49:23
It's more one sided. And then being sick yourself. And that really opened your eyes to be like, oh, you know, I'm not. I'm not receiving. I wasn't receiving anything. coupled with all the personal development work, you've reached to. And I love when you said, you know, I'll, I'll head may know it or it has to align with our heart.
00:17:49:25 - 00:18:18:17
So, It must be a tough, tough decision. I mean, it can't be easy to say, you know, I'm leaving 30 years of marriage. So you talking about. You were learning the lessons. So what would you say is the biggest lesson you learned in making that decision? leaving the marriage.
00:18:18:19 - 00:18:48:15
The biggest lesson. The biggest lesson is. Find out who you are and what you want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm the youngest of eight kids, and I think I didn't know that. Yeah. I think that there's probably some sort of a, a, belief that. Oh, you're the youngest, so you're probably spoiled and this and that.
00:18:48:18 - 00:19:22:04
But my journey was such that I was a pleaser. So I tend. Okay, I tend to please my brothers and sisters and my mom is a saint, by the way. And I walked in her footsteps in a way where, she gave, gave, gave gave. And that's that was the role model. And so that's why I wanted to go through the self-development so I can, so I can be assured of who I am because I felt like I was living other identities by pleasing my family.
00:19:22:04 - 00:19:45:28
My large family, if you will. Yeah. So knowing who you are and what you want, that sounds like a, an easy decision. But depending on your upbringing that may or may not be. And then, you know we were raised to not be selfish. You know, it's just like, oh yeah, if you want that, you know, if you're calling attention to yourself.
00:19:45:28 - 00:20:19:26
So, that was my journey. And I think that based upon just the, the evolution of seeing all the patterns of obedience. Yeah. That was to me, I think that was the, the time factor. I was a rebel when I was younger. I mean I but there was something there where I just said, you know, I cannot make my mom unhappy by going against her word.
00:20:19:28 - 00:20:51:18
it was too painful for me to see her in pain. But at the end of the day, not knowing you are. And that's the other thing is I did a lot of forgiveness because forgiveness work because I didn't know who I was. So therefore, I felt like I led this man down, this marriage. And I was a who I, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, we are all adults, and we're making consensual decision.
00:20:51:20 - 00:21:18:10
I'm not responsible for his choices. I can only be responsible for mine. And I and I owned up to it. You know, I, yeah. So I still remember the day when I, When I brought it up to him. I do believe that that separation does serve a purpose. So I do believe that that helps both parties.
00:21:18:17 - 00:21:44:28
And getting a clearer picture, if you will, a part. and that was my first step, was that I said that, you know, I think we need that separation so we can really kind of decipher this. but yeah. So knowing who you are, I think is, is for me. And as I talk to others is probably top choice there.
00:21:45:01 - 00:22:12:21
Yeah. Yeah. And that's a tough journey. And to, to really figure that out because, something that I can totally resonate just because being a giver and also growing up in that kind of a culture. I'm from China, so it's it's overwhelmingly for you. You self is not a concept to that exist in a larger society. It's always other right?
00:22:12:21 - 00:22:56:01
Others first. So that definitely carries into my marriage as well. And just giving, giving, giving to a degree of, harming myself without realizing that. And then even after the divorce, realizing, wow, I lost myself playing, someone's wife, that role, that identity, or the mom or. But where is that? six year old Lisa? I know who maybe be a, a little bit of rebellion, you know, and that, like, fun and genuine and authentic and to find to get in touch with that.
00:22:56:01 - 00:23:35:15
Lisa takes a long time because it's get lost. So, and then how did, the divorce come about? The whole legal process? Yeah. so when I was going through my, my therapy, and I voice that I, I was, I need to change this relationship. She referred me to a divorce attorney. And.
00:23:35:17 - 00:24:09:09
So I would say that the next step, the next big step in this process is being prepared. And when I say being prepared, I don't mean to be so strategic that you're manipulating every step of the way. it's being prepared for again who you are, who I am, how I'm going to react to things and how I will respond to my husband's reactions.
00:24:09:11 - 00:24:51:15
and so so I met with the attorney and my goal from the get go is to use the help of the attorney as a mediator. And to help with the paperwork and the process. Not so much to litigate. And in the state of California where I'm at, I could have started out with a mediator, but if things went ugly and then if it was going to go to litigation, I couldn't use my mediator to litigate for me.
00:24:51:16 - 00:25:19:15
I would have to start all over again. Yeah. So so that's, so I started with a, attorney and that's how I approached the conversation with my husband at the at the time, I said, we worked so hard for our money, I don't want to pay lawyer fees, court fees. I want to use this person to mediate and to, to just make sure paperwork is done correctly.
00:25:19:15 - 00:25:45:02
And and to be able to hold on to as much of the money as we can between the two of us. And and I just said we are really lucky. There's a lot there's abundance for you and for me. You know, it's we just need to work things out in the most amicable way. And, and so that was how I started the conversation.
00:25:45:04 - 00:26:12:22
I like to challenge you though. You said, you know, not being. You said being prepared but it's not I, I agree not on the not being my, part, but you were very strategic as well because you thought you did your research right. You did your research whether it's mediator or, lawyer. However, you're right. If you start over again, it would be a new, ordeal to start with a lawyer.
00:26:12:22 - 00:26:36:08
So you were very strategic over there at that beginning, and you did your homework and you had the tough conversation, and you laid out your goal and, to protect the mutual benefits at the very beginning. I mean, in a lot of cases. And the other party may not collaborate in a lot of clients. Case I see, but you were very strategic.
00:26:36:08 - 00:27:01:24
And that's I think being being a part of being prepared is do your homework, get yourself ready. Yeah. You know, I felt like I was being I was coming from a heart centered approach. My therapist introduced me to the to the attorney. It was the attorney who shared that, peace of mind. yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:01:24 - 00:27:27:18
So, my my heart centered approach has always been, I want this to be remarkable. And I said, I. And I said all these words to my husband at the time. I said, I truly do believe that two people can be better off as friends. I still believe that we can come together and and celebrate holidays with the kids together as co-parenting.
00:27:27:20 - 00:27:56:27
I believe all of that. And, and I and I look forward to that. And I hope that that's the way, you know. So I said all of those things. and I so I some may see a strategic some may felt I was as guided. That was that was my heart the whole entire time, you know, and there were very good characteristics about my ex.
00:27:56:28 - 00:28:26:04
You know, he's a hard worker. He doesn't hang out and go drinking with the guys. He is, responsible. He provided for the family, had all those types of things. however, I think with his upbringing, he wanted to be a better dad than his own father. But things evolve. Things changed. I mean, what used to be the standard here, this is now the standard, if you will.
00:28:26:05 - 00:28:56:07
Right? I mean, just there's there's, Yeah, man. Yeah. What, what? Yeah. What's the what are the roles that a dad plays have evolved. It's not just bring them bring them money home. And it's much more than that. Like, in the modern society. So, it sounds like the, the legal process went, fairly amicable. Also, understandably, that you have grown up children, if I understand.
00:28:56:07 - 00:29:31:16
Right. So it's really just division of assets and and you know, he's his benefits are in there. So I was curious though, how how did you react to when you, broke the news to him that you want a divorce? How did that go? It didn't go well. He was very hurt because his his issues were abandonment. I mean, it was, it was and it was being replayed in his mind when his parents divorced and how his mom left the family.
00:29:31:16 - 00:30:05:06
Household. All of this was like regurgitating in his head, which is one of the reasons why I asked him to consider going through counseling so he can heal him. You know, he he he felt his pain, but he also numbed it with substance. Okay. So, so those those, I had, I had medical issues to to that was involved in the, in the marriage.
00:30:05:08 - 00:30:40:07
Then we had substance abuse that was in the marriage. also, there was a potential weapon scenario. I mean, it was okay. It it could have gotten really volatile. And he had a very bad temper. He went from 0 to 100 very easily. So, so that was the part where I, I, I wanted to be prepared so that if there was any time, a bit of a safety situation.
00:30:40:14 - 00:31:13:26
Yep yep yep. So yeah. So kids being grown up, I think that there's different set of challenges in that they've seen there's this functional family for a good period of time. So that's what they're used to. Just like me I went through that that type of, you know, trauma if you will. So but luckily I introduced both of my kids to, counselors and therapy, when they were in middle school.
00:31:13:28 - 00:31:39:18
Yeah. Because. Yeah. Well, it's tough. I mean, yeah, yeah, the kids in school are mean, so, so, yeah, I introduced them early on to therapy and counseling. So that was a big help that they had someone to talk to. But yeah. So I would say that the, the legal process, we didn't have to go to court. However, he didn't make it easy either.
00:31:39:20 - 00:32:18:25
I mean, he dragged his feet. I mean, yeah, he dragged his feet and, also, there were some threats, not not, safety threats, but it was just like, oh, accusing me of different things. Yeah. Yeah. gaslighting to. Yeah, it was just a, a a handful of things where, had I not prepared myself. I do recall there were a couple of, of conversations where I actually lost it.
00:32:18:27 - 00:32:52:08
I yelled back. And I just said, you know, this is I said I can understand, we both can be angry, but we don't have to be mean to each other. And what you're doing right now is really mean. Yeah. You know and and I even said I feel like I'm having a emotional breakdown trying to, or trying to part ways in an amicable way.
00:32:52:10 - 00:33:25:11
And I don't know what it is that is standing in the way. I don't understand if you get a lot of joy going through this pain. But this is really I mean, I was yelling a point. I mean, I wasn't calm like, but and it's hard to remain calm in that situation like, Yeah. Right. So so that's the I think sometimes I think sometimes that was like an awakening for him is like, okay, I sometimes when you're calm about things, the other person.
00:33:25:14 - 00:33:45:03
Well, I can only speak. I wonder if my husband felt like I was in such control. And you were calm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So. And when I lost it. Yeah. When I lost it. And of those two conversations, it just felt like he was kind of like. Oh, okay. You know. Yeah, she's she's serious and that's what's real.
00:33:45:03 - 00:34:09:27
And it's so interesting. So we talk about this dynamic change right in in marriage because like we carry this dynamic for so many years I, it's for you for you guys, it sounds like you were always calm and collected and he was maybe more, wave. And, his emotion is more volatile. And now you, you change that dynamic to really let your, anger come out.
00:34:09:27 - 00:34:45:00
Whatever emotions you were showing. And it's he he was like, oh, wow, this is so different. I got to take it seriously. So that's like, great sharing because we see a lot of people getting stuck in their divorce negotiation and just carrying that old same pattern or dynamic. Right. And and not changing. And, you thank you for sharing also, because even though you, you, intended it to be amicable and divorce can be really, really ugly.
00:34:45:02 - 00:34:56:15
and so how did you do that? Seems like it's a dynamic change right there. How did you remain?
00:34:56:17 - 00:35:40:18
How do I say not always calm and collected, but collected throughout? How did you ride this wave? Where you go through when you went through this, divorce negotiation process? lots of prayers. I mean, like the prayers and, meditation. this came about, I moved out one day before the pandemic shut down. And, because with the pandemic and having to work at home, I was thinking there's no way that I'm, laid back up.
00:35:40:20 - 00:36:08:19
It didn't seem like a healthy situation for me to be under the same roof with a person 24 seven with the pandemic and, I prayed and I just, I, I, I just talked to God, I and I, I so this is the end result here. Show me the way, how this is going to work out, you know, just light my path here.
00:36:08:21 - 00:36:44:13
And so, so lots of prayers and then before a conversation or interaction with, with him, I would really prepare myself to be grounded and almost, to the point of writing down a soothing statement, that, that I would mentally tell myself. Yeah, to said to your, your energy. Yeah. To be grounded or to be whatever are there for that.
00:36:44:15 - 00:37:15:13
So yeah. So in all of the negotiation for you and to him present and that's it or was a lawyer present or for most majority of it, it's just you and him on the major, on the major meetings where it needed to have the lawyers there. and the lawyer was present. However, this dragged out to be an over the a two year, over two years situation.
00:37:15:16 - 00:37:46:29
Wow. Yeah. So even if with your amicable approach and without children, it still took two years. Yeah, it took two years. Just because, when you're when you're dealing with the person who comes from lack of and scarcity, yes. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. he wanted to it was a battle for him. He wanted to fight for for things that he felt that he was owed the world.
00:37:46:29 - 00:38:08:25
Owed him. Yeah, that's that was his work. Even said it, you know, he even these were some of his words that the world owed him. And so he was fighting for what the world owed him. And, and I said, okay, he if you come to the, you know, if you come to an a situation with that kind of mentality.
00:38:08:28 - 00:38:35:02
Yeah, it's that's what you're leading with. It's so interesting you say that the scarcity mindset I mean, we all have it right. We all have it. It's it's not just him, but especially in deep ones. I remember at one point telling my ex, but the same saying, I said, I can, I can understand your I mean, my situation is totally different, but today it's not about my story.
00:38:35:04 - 00:38:57:18
so I was the one who, he chose to, to leave, even on the other, on the other side, I was really trying to protect our mutual benefits. And I can see that he's getting into that scarcity mindset. Right? Because when people are just fighting all of the tiny pieces and trying to be protective, I said, I can see that you see things as less and less.
00:38:57:24 - 00:39:24:05
Because no matter how how we divide this, it's going to be left, right together. We are, this is our whatever we have. And now, no matter how we are, you going to you feel like you are going to get less. I was encouraging him and took by saying that, we got to shift the mindset to to see it will be more because you have the ability to make one.
00:39:24:05 - 00:39:53:03
I have the ability to make more. Right. once we have, a calm mind, you know, amicable separation, I didn't get that way. That's another story. Because when you have that intention, not necessarily it's going to be achieved. But that mindset is is huge. And you can see when someone, carry their behavior with that. Oh my God, I'm going to get less and less.
00:39:53:05 - 00:40:21:29
It's going to be less and less rather than when you said, oh, we're so lucky because we have so much abundance. You are approaching from that mindset that it's other than the couple's dynamic, this is also a battle because we see things differently. Yeah. Wow. And I don't know yours. Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't think the term abundance meant anything to him because it was like, what do you mean abundance?
00:40:21:29 - 00:40:50:06
You know? Hey, you're ripping me off. You're leaving. You're you're, abandoning, you know, this this, this marriage. And so I, I even, took the term fairness off the table. It's about it's simple. Request is not request reasonable. you know, because life is not fair to begin with. So that's not the approach I was taking.
00:40:50:09 - 00:41:33:27
But is the request reasonable? And and when you're talking about give and take, and it depends on the different types of assets that you're dealing with. So that's where the reasonableness, came into play. And, that was what was keeping me sane as well, because, I. This is funny. How things turned out was almost exactly what I was praying for, in a way where I had said, I didn't I didn't care for for the home just because it had a lot of memories.
00:41:33:27 - 00:41:55:09
And I just, I, you know, I wanted to refresh and he, he's a homebody. So he felt very comfortable being in the home. So that was something that that was a reasonable thing for me to walk away. Now with a real estate value the way it is, was that the right thing for for me, for me to do?
00:41:55:11 - 00:42:23:22
I didn't want to keep fighting. I didn't want to keep being in this. And and just that's not where my energy I wanted to be in. Yeah, yeah. And it's it's a very, very important. Right. This is what, I encourage my clients is that know your non-negotiables in your negotiation. So for you, you know, you achieved what you wanted because you were very clear what you wanted.
00:42:23:29 - 00:42:54:22
So many people going through this journey or process not knowing what they want. So they kind of just figure out, not even along the way. Right. And that's that's the danger. and really another better approach is, as you said at the get go, really get clear, prepare yourself. That preparation is also knowing. And that's also part of knowing who you are is what matters to you and that what's what's worth fighting for.
00:42:54:25 - 00:43:39:20
so and like for me, the key, my top priority was keeping, the children, you know, matrimonial home. Because I really wanted to minimize the disruption to their life if they have to change schools. Right. And at the time, having a newborn, I really like moving. Would it be a lot of stress for me? So I think for, other people who are listening, it's really, really very important to get clear of what are the top three things you, you must have out of this and, and the rest and something that you can let go of, or maybe not get 100% of whatever that piece of pie is.
00:43:39:22 - 00:44:08:17
so yeah, I just want to share. And also I wanted to point out another thing that I get a sense that there was a lack of safety for you in the marriage, and you talk about emotional safety, but just in general, I had a sense that there's a lack of that. So that house in itself is not going to provide that safety.
00:44:08:20 - 00:44:17:13
So. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. It was
00:44:17:15 - 00:44:53:18
I just felt like, he's he's not accustomed to change. And it would going to, serve the situation. If the situation provided him some level of safety and comfort and familiarity so that you can then say, okay, you know what? That's a pretty good deal, if you will. Yeah. for him. Of what? What matters to him.
00:44:53:18 - 00:45:16:25
You were considering, from his, like, best interests as well. Like, one thing. Yeah, we talked about, like, in this negotiation, like, looking at the interest, common interests rather than someone's position. And we had a session last week, talking about that, so. Yeah, absolutely. Me with you taking care of him to some degree. And in that sense, yeah.
00:45:16:25 - 00:45:44:23
Yeah. Well, part of that I and I kept asking myself that question, am I enabling this or am I still being the provider because my end goal was to get this completed? That was my end goal. What are the steps that's going to help me get there? Right. And and I tell you.
00:45:44:25 - 00:46:09:14
I really, truly believe that when your heart is pure. And that's why I didn't use the word strategy. In a sense, when your heart is pure on what it is that you want to see and envision this to be an amicable situation, that was where I was being led versus, oh, I'm going to trick him into thinking that, oh, you love that home.
00:46:09:17 - 00:46:36:05
Stay in it. You know it be easy for you. That was the words that were going through my head. You know, it's and you were to truly, genuinely care. Caring about him, knowing that he would love to stay right. It would be better for him to stay and it would be just better for him. So and and yeah, yeah, I think some people fight just for the sake of fighting, you know?
00:46:36:08 - 00:46:57:06
You know, I don't want him to have that house, you know, I'm going to stick. And even when then some people even use that as a as a threatening strategy, right? Oh, if you don't give me that, I will be, you know, forced you to sell the house even though it doesn't make sense to sell the house. Absolutely, absolutely.
00:46:57:09 - 00:47:47:03
Yeah. You came from your heart. And then so for people who are going through this very I would say that the most ugly phase of divorce is the divorce negotiation, dividing assets or parenting time, which usually takes more than a couple months, you know, and some longer even. And, what would your advice, do? What would your piece of advice to them who, where they are right now, because it's very mentally draining and also financial draining, because to pay all of the legal fees to in a lot of cases that fight back and forth and, swimmingly.
00:47:47:05 - 00:48:25:05
sometimes not very big matters, but sometimes, huge matters like parenting time or dividing a business. It's tough. It's all consuming, right? It's hard not to ruminating and also feeling like you're putting your life on hold, just trying to complete this thing. And a lot of people I talked to, they're asking Michael, when will this end? Like people for people who haven't gone through this journey, it's very hard to understand because divorce, negotiation is so different than a business negotiation.
00:48:25:07 - 00:48:43:07
But it's also part of it is business negotiation. So how do we, yeah, I wonder device do you, do you have to give people where in the in in this thickness of divorce negotiation?
00:48:43:09 - 00:49:42:27
For me, I felt that, making sure that the other person feels heard is important. and it comes back to. Speaking up and talking about facts. Says emotions. And even when you're feeling emotional I mean it's okay to say you know what. Right now I'm just really drained and emotional about this. I just, I don't know if we're going to be able to make best choices at the, at the moment, keeping conversations open and, and connecting like following up, you know, so during the, during the divorce negotiations, I had moved out.
00:49:42:29 - 00:50:10:28
So the conversation was, okay, let's let's meet up every two weeks by phone or whatever the case is. and just have our agreements. You know, you research that I research is this come back and just talk about. So we would have, almost like a project plan, if you will, to keep going at that. And then once it, once it just gets to the point where we're, we're both drained.
00:50:11:01 - 00:50:45:03
It's like taking a step back and to say, you know what? I feel we're getting really tired right now. I don't know about you, but I am. So I hear what you're saying. So let's just meet again, you know, so making sure that the person feels heard. And I think that you got to follow with your gut if you feel like you're being taken advantage of because you're the calm, cool and collected and and and in my case, I was the person who wanted this to be completed.
00:50:45:06 - 00:51:03:10
Just making sure that you're not being, taken advantage of at that point, because if I, if I felt like I was, then. Yeah. And that would be when I would get the lawyer involved in it and it's like, okay, here's more money. And I know money was a big deal for him. You know, he didn't want to spend a penny.
00:51:03:12 - 00:51:25:25
So all the lawyer fees actually I paid. And luckily we didn't we didn't exhaust out a whole lot. But money was a big deal to him. So if we didn't, I said, if we don't work this out, the lawyers, I can just take a whole big chunk out of this. So what do you want? So knowing the others, what's the motivator is like, wow.
00:51:25:25 - 00:51:53:22
Yeah okay. I'm going to ask a tough one. Thank you for sharing that. So so again knowing the other side's interest and really, knowing where you can, sacrifice. Right. Like in this case, you know, for example, you paid the legal fee. I'm not saying everybody should, but just knowing that where you can retrieve and when you need to, move, move forward and be firm.
00:51:53:24 - 00:52:30:27
And if you feel like it's. I was going to say fair, but it's not reasonable. And you should get the, lawyers involved. So I'm not sure if you've, had clients like this, the when you know, they're going through a divorce or separation, and the other side is completely not, in any way of communication, right. Either stonewalling or it's either very violent or aggressive, verbal or sometimes even physical.
00:52:30:29 - 00:53:04:08
And, how how did they deal with that, situation when they want it to be amicable? Right. They still wanted to create that, friendship, or at least calm environment for the kids when they're co-parenting or just even for themselves because of the time and the history and they shared together. So what what would you advise people in that situation to do or not to do?
00:53:04:10 - 00:53:08:15
Right? You know,
00:53:08:17 - 00:53:37:11
At some point in the beginning, he was stonewalling. You know, it. When you're when you're dealing with a person who, isn't emotionally, it's I always call it arrested Development. You know, it's like, okay, I'm frozen. You know, I've been giving this news and I'm frozen. I don't know what to do next. He was smart enough that,
00:53:37:14 - 00:54:16:27
And the lawyer, my lawyer indicated that if we both participate and we both are collaborative in this and that, I don't need to get the judge involved. I mean, she says she said some of those things because she interviewed me and says, okay, what's his personality like? You know, I had to tell her that he had a temper and he, so some of those characteristics and behaviors, the attorney addressed it in the beginning when she served the paperwork, and during the process when she was, representing the meetings.
00:54:17:00 - 00:54:48:17
So. Luckily, he had a conscience to realize that if he if he doesn't collaborate, then he had to deal with the wrath of a judge. So your your other clients who don't have, conscience, if you will. I think that you have to get the bad out and play hardball. Okay. And I think you kind of hit right on, on the head.
00:54:48:18 - 00:55:21:06
Is that knowing what's important for them. Some people have lost hope and they don't give a hoot you know they don't care. And so they're going to make it as tough as possible. And I would tell you that the moment when things changed for me was when I was deep forgiveness work. When I did it to give this work it shifted both of us.
00:55:21:08 - 00:55:46:11
I wasn't just I wasn't just, praying for myself. I mean when you do healing for yourself, you're healing. You're I believe that you were contributing to planetary healing. It shifted him because my, the, the approach was different. I it wasn't there for you. He wasn't a battle for me. He was he was a battle for himself.
00:55:46:14 - 00:56:39:27
Yes. Yes, yes. You know, he was he was going against the flow. And I just said, do you like this? You know, if you if you, if you like this kind of emotions and this feeling in this battle, this, this personal misery path that is yours. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Is that when we truly let go and come from a place of the heart centered approach, but also love and things could shift even if the other person is in such anger and ultimately agony and trying to inflict certain pain maybe on you, but ultimately on himself and not realizing that.
00:56:39:29 - 00:57:19:05
And. Yeah, and really, the there's nothing you can do about it, but working on yourself, whether that's your leave, your development or in the sense forgiveness, then to really, truly bring that, consciousness back. Yeah. That's a, that's a tough place to be. but what grows. Yeah, it was just it was kind of bizarre because my, my lawyer, I remember my lawyer, said, oh my gosh, what changed?
00:57:19:05 - 00:57:52:04
What shifted? And I said, you know, and she and I never really talk about spirituality. but but she was kind of like a typical lawyer, you know, and I just said, in addition to prayer work and journaling, I did a lot of forgiveness work, and, and I kept asking myself, how can I love my soon to be ex-husband and 1% more each day.
00:57:52:06 - 00:58:21:28
Wow. And you know what beginning I said heck no. Yeah. You have to, you have to be ready to, to go there as well. And, and this is the time. We don't know how long would that take right. For us to fully let go and accept and also come from a place of love. and the concept that I've been thinking a lot of is that, you know, I love you, but I don't have to be with you to love you.
00:58:22:00 - 00:58:50:11
Like I can love you from afar. And that bigger, universal love. So. Yeah. That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And it's definitely not easy to get to that place, but, it's possible. And the work lives in us and not the other party because I hear my clients say that a lot. Oh, why can't that person do this?
00:58:50:11 - 00:59:15:27
Why couldn't that person, if that person could be theirs and we know we would be done, and certainly, certainly for sure. But, yeah, the work is really unmatched. So thank you. I want to ask you, the last question, which is or maybe the last two. So we talked about your advice to people who are in the thick of this.
00:59:15:29 - 00:59:36:21
So what would your advice be to people who are in that that place? Should I stay or should I go? What would you tell them? You know,
00:59:36:23 - 01:00:22:26
In just especially with the folks who have kids, I did ask that question is that I said you had this inkling for a reason. What? What gave you those feelings that you might, that you are dissatisfied? and this is something that I'm actually working with, with a couple of people is for the next seven days, each day I would post a question for them, and then for them to journal their experience in the relationship.
01:00:22:28 - 01:00:50:28
At the end of the day, give them a reading at the end of the week, give it a rating. So the scale was was 0 to 10 by the end of the week. If you're more than five, how do we get it to ten? if you're less than five, how do you want to create a different relationship?
01:00:51:00 - 01:01:02:18
What would that look like? So my advice would be is. Decide on.
01:01:02:21 - 01:01:28:22
What is a meaningful relationship. What does that look like? And I'm sorry, this, the sun is coming through here. It's okay. Yeah, but, like, what is what is a meaningful relationship? Happy relationships. A a relationship where you just feel like you are the queen and he's the king or you're both queens. Who knows? You know, what does that look like?
01:01:28:22 - 01:02:01:21
Because it's about honoring both people. It's not just about you or it's not just about me. But what would this. Because when you're, when you're in a dysfunctional relationship, there is some level of, dissatisfaction, but one is probably more than the other. you know, so my advice would, would be, is that decide on what type of relationship you want and be conscientious and have that level of consciousness.
01:02:01:24 - 01:02:27:15
If you make that decision. Here are some of the possibilities. The reason why I say that is because I did make a conscious decision on staying status quo, because I had a lot of autonomy in my marriage. Now I, I did the books, I had the financial outlook. and, and paid the bills, took care of the household.
01:02:27:16 - 01:02:54:28
I really did all of that. And I had a lot of freedom in the marriage. And so I stayed in the marriage for a certain period of time, because that was a decision I made because I had a lot of freedom. And it got to the point where that freedom and that when I say freedom is like, traveling with my girlfriends because I love to travel and we didn't, we didn't mess around or flirt or anything.
01:02:54:29 - 01:03:17:06
It was just pure really good girl friendship. So I have, I have that I was able I was able to go on retreats and stuff. So there was a period of time when I had a lot of freedom and that was okay for me. Once that things passed, it was like, okay, when I come home, I really don't have a partner at home.
01:03:17:08 - 01:03:54:00
It's like a mixed situation. Am I satisfied with that? You know, so you go through different phases like that. That's why I think people are in limbo for a certain long time. I think I think the statistics is that it's probably an average of seven years that they're in limbo, which is incredibly long. But but yeah. So I think it's, it's, working with someone on identifying what is an ideal relationship that gives you the most satisfaction.
01:03:54:02 - 01:04:24:28
Yeah. Yeah. And in talking about partnership, you know what what's a meaningful fulfilling partnership. What does it look like getting clear on that. Right. At first when you say getting clear on who you are, what do you values. And then and the next question instead of questions, what would it be? What does a meaningful, fulfilling and intimate, life partnership look like for me and then go from there?
01:04:25:00 - 01:04:56:02
Yeah. Thank you. I want to ask last question because I was listening to a podcast, and the idea is that, for so many, so many things, we focus on, the not so good. Right? So and not realizing there is the other side, the good side of anything happening. So I want to, rapid wrap this up and by asking.
01:04:56:04 - 01:05:48:05
What's what's the beauty out of this journey for you? What's beautiful out of your divorce journey? It's such a, A level of excitement on what empowerment feels like. because. When you can stand there and speak your truth. And the conversation didn't go well, but yet. Through unappealing the layers you continue to refine yourself. I'm still refining myself.
01:05:48:08 - 01:06:27:01
You know so I so can resonate. Yeah absolutely. And and that's why I think God is really humorous and very compassionate at the same time. It's it's just a beautiful, your your life is like a, like a a dimmer light. You know, it just keeps on lighting brighter and brighter and brighter as you continue to just keep taking those steps and have faith that things will work out.
01:06:27:03 - 01:06:53:11
And it's when your faith is being tested, that you can still find that unshakable faith to continue walking path. Yeah. and that's why it, when I was in my corporate job and especially in dealing with like, potential sexual harassment, you know, the person who feels like they were the victim, they're afraid to speak up.
01:06:53:13 - 01:07:20:19
And when we work together and they're able to find their voice and stand there and speak, it's. I still get chills. I think it's it's. And they tell me, they said, oh, my God, I didn't think I could do that. I thought that I was going to die. But yet when I spoke those words, it was an incredible burst of energy that I was standing in my truth.
01:07:20:22 - 01:07:53:07
Oh yeah. It's not, it's not easy. I mean it's, it's not an easy path but it's so worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And then the work is on us to ultimately find finding our voice again. And the tools working is if it's tough but so fulfilling and meaningful when we show up at who we are in any kind of context.
01:07:53:10 - 01:08:27:03
And it's really empowering. And I can totally understand why you have chills is that when people can see through and transition from that victim seat to being power, to be in that control, in that drivers seat of their life. It's oh, it's the that's the beauty there. thank you so much for sharing. And, I'm going to ask this question because, podcaster asks, where can people find you?
01:08:27:03 - 01:08:30:09
Lauren.
01:08:30:11 - 01:08:55:25
Morgan LinkedIn. My LinkedIn is probably the best place to, to find me at the moment. Lauren Trend bros and the whole heart centered approach is is so, it's so profound and powerful for me. That's why I wanted to make sure that it was is part of my, my, my core and the name of my company.
01:08:55:27 - 01:09:33:11
And then I was, I was playing playing with my, my middle, actually, my maiden, last name. So it's not transformational with an S, it's transformational without the s. So I was kind of. Oh, I totally missed that. I added s because I was like, oh, that makes sense. Because of gender, race. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it it it just, it's it just reflects a personal story behind the company, and, and it's just I, I'm like your your bestie.
01:09:33:11 - 01:09:55:20
If you're facing separation of divorce or just trying to find clarity. I just, I I'm your bestie. So. But link my LinkedIn page is probably my best because that's kind of where more people have found me through that and through referrals. Awesome. Okay. Thank you again. All right. Thank you.