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When you had the affair,
were you running away from the marriage
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or were you running toward the
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this new relationship?
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Oh, that's a great question.
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I've never really thought about it
in that term before.
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Welcome to Untying the Knot, your go to podcast
for all things divorce.
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We're here to share stories
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and strategies to help you untangle
the knots in your divorce,
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so you can navigate it with confidence
and clarity and build the life you desire.
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I'm your host, Lisa GU, and,
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we have my friend Jeff today, and,
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yeah, to share his divorce journey
and super grateful.
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Jeff and I met at a yoga retreat 2
or 3 years ago, and I think two years ago.
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Yeah, we we, we have the same
meditation teacher, so. And,
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some of you know that I'm
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going to Bali, you to get my yoga teacher
training certificate.
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Jeff just went in March,
so he was giving me all the tips about
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the trip and stuff, and then I was like,
wow, you should come to
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my, coaching program
to talk about your journey.
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And he just super gracefully accepted
that invitation.
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And, here we are.
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So that's where Jeff and I met.
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Also, Jeff is an entrepreneur.
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You have your own business.
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Yeah. Yeah, I'm a painter.
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painting business.
And for many, many years.
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Yeah, I've been in it for
well over 20 years.
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I started in year 2000.
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I've been at it, for 24 years now. Yeah.
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Awesome.
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And and he's, everything in my house
right now
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in the basement regarding this together,
which doesn't happen often, so.
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Okay.
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so tell us
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how how did your divorce, start?
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Like, how many years were you married?
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And did you have kids?
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And how you start, like, come about?
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Okay, well,
I was married for about 12 years.
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we have two children.
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they're,
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now they are 14 and 17 years old.
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I guess one of the things about,
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about my divorce
is I held on to my marriage way too long.
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Like, stayed in, after I was unhappy
and things weren't working.
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because I was scared of how how,
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the divorce would affect the kids.
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You. Yeah.
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Maybe a lot of fear.
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scared
of not spending as much time with my kids.
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and, And just how how they'd be affected.
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but, but,
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yeah, all that, all those fears
were pretty much unfounded.
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They're they're doing well.
They're in high school.
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They're. Yeah.
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I have good grades
and they're they're happy. So.
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So that's,
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Yeah.
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one of the, the things that,
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that I want to emphasize about,
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about my divorce is that,
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you know, when you,
when you realize things are are not good
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or you're in the wrong place, it's,
it's better to get out to make a change.
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or I shouldn't say not necessarily
get out,
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but make make a change that,
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for your own happiness.
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Because staying staying somewhere
where, where you're unhappy and,
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and things aren't working,
just, just puts in time and,
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and doesn't improve anybody's life.
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and sometimes that change doesn't
necessarily, have to be divorce.
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It could be improvement on yourself.
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An improvement on your marriage.
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If the other person
is willing to meet you.
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And you mentioned there were times
that you realize you were not happy.
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So how long
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was that
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period before you decide, okay, I, I,
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I have to end this marriage and to start,
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start new.
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And what were there
some triggers or events
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and that help you make that decision?
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yeah, definitely. I,
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I, I can't really pinpoint spot
at like one time when I said,
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you know, six years in or ten years in
is way where I felt that I was.
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Yeah, unhappy like there were I remember
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little things all the way along.
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that,
you know, kind of made me realize that
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that we weren't right for each other.
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yeah, I, I even remember on my honeymoon
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being a little bit unhappy,
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or thinking,
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maybe this isn't the right,
the right partner for me.
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And, you know,
that's not saying that she's a bad person.
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Just.
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We weren't well-matched,
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but she was the person that I was dating
when when I was 30 years old.
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And that's, you know, all my friends were
married, and I wanted to be too.
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So, because that social convention
pressure is like this,
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you should do this, right?
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Rather than listening to your,
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inner voice or heart like.
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There may be something not quite right.
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Yeah.
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I was you know, back then
I didn't know about listening to my heart.
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I wasn't into any, I didn't do yoga,
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I didn't have any,
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real,
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holistic,
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training or any modalities
that, that I followed back
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then, you know, I,
I went to a Christian church and,
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I was starting
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my business around that time and,
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you know, just living very much
in the, in the material world.
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next time.
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I'm going inside.
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So what wasn't right.
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see I think I always wanted more,
I was always wanted you know
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more adventure to, to do more stuff,
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to to explore the world more.
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And she was very happy
just having, a normal life watching.
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Watching TV.
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you know,
going to going to work, coming home and,
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watching the soap operas
that she had recorded during the day.
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And yeah.
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And that takes you with that.
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What's the soap opera
she recorded that dates.
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You know back then.
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Yeah.
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so it's sounds like it's
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the development piece or life vision piece
that really didn't align
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that the life you wanted to growing to or
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Become.
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It is a little bit different.
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Probably something you never talked about
when you were dating,
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but it became more and more obvious.
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Yes. You.
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Yeah. Went through life.
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Absolutely.
Yeah. And I think another thing,
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we grew apart as we were married. So.
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So I think lots of times
it works the opposite way
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that two people meet
and they get together.
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And maybe communication is,
is the, the key.
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But, I think sometimes people can,
can grow together while they're married.
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But we tended to
or we did, grow apart even.
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Yeah.
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Even while we were married
and living in the same house.
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Were just growing apart of me.
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Like what are some examples of you sense
examples?
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Well, I,
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I stopped being happy with being,
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you know, 20 pounds overweight and,
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you know, drinking too much and
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that sort of lifestyle.
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And I started doing yoga. I,
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I took, I learned how to do Reiki.
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I started long distance
running and really tried.
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It was trying to improve,
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my legs.
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And I would have, like for to come along
on that journey with me and that, Yeah.
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That never happened.
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And I think I made the mistake of,
you know, pushing too hard.
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And then, you know,
maybe she got turned off of
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all those ideas of you need it, you know,
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saw it as a, as a pressure maybe.
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So you were changing your lifestyle.
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Yeah. consciously. Yeah.
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I think I think I was changing
and maybe she wasn't.
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And then that's how we grew apart.
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And so what happened
leading to the divorce.
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Well leading into the divorce
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I met someone else and
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someone, you know,
she showed interest in me,
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which, which my wife,
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you know, very little interest,
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in me or any of the things
that we were doing and we,
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wound up having,
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a three year affair
or, before I got divorced.
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yeah.
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Maybe the right thing to do at that point
would have been to,
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to end.
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But definitely the right thing to do
would have been to end things
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right there.
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because that was a pretty good sign
that I wasn't happy in my marriage.
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But still, fear was the, motivating factor
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that that kept me in marriage of, Yeah.
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Fear of losing my children.
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Losing my house.
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All that.
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My whole thing.
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Thank you for sharing
that I know can be really really hard and
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What would you do
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differently if it's, you know,
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with regards to that part.
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yeah I guess if you drop.
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Yeah.
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Me now into any point, I would have,
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Yeah. I think
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first of all, saying,
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having a discussion about the things
that I'm unhappy with at the time.
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and seeing if, you know,
we could work hard and fix things before,
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before they got to the point
where we were that far apart and,
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and then, you know, if,
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if that wasn't possible,
getting out of the marriage
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earlier rather than later.
00:11:06:01 - 00:11:06:11
And yeah
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there would have been less hard feelings,
less time wasted.
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if if I could do it that way.
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For sure.
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So the fear of
I think a lot of fathers in particular
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because we used to have this culture
is that you get a divorce.
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The father owning see the children
you know every other weekend.
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That's kind of the, the deal or the norm.
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It's far from the truth now.
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And, and I see a lot of fathers fighting
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for more time and, and the fact
that they have to fight for more time.
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Says that we still kind of have
that culture back, and it's more common
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for fathers to be engaged in,
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even after the divorce
and have like, equal parenting time now.
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So, so how did, at the time, it was,
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well, how long ago?
00:12:00:15 - 00:12:02:09
Ten years ago.
00:12:02:09 - 00:12:04:16
2006. So eight years. Ago.
00:12:04:16 - 00:12:05:09
Yeah. So.
00:12:05:09 - 00:12:06:12
And not even longer.
00:12:06:12 - 00:12:10:14
So how did the divorce
and come along that legal side of things
00:12:10:14 - 00:12:13:00
and how did it how did it go?
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When you do
tell her that you want a divorce?
00:12:18:00 - 00:12:18:08
yeah.
00:12:18:08 - 00:12:21:08
What, what happened after,
00:12:22:02 - 00:12:24:09
she found out about about the affair.
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Really?
00:12:24:21 - 00:12:28:13
For a year, we,
we tried to work on on the marriage.
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And after
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working really hard on the marriage for
00:12:35:14 - 00:12:39:00
for about a year,
I realized that I had been working
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really hard to get back
something that I didn't want.
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In the first place. So,
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we sat down, had a discussion and,
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yeah.
00:12:52:06 - 00:12:55:08
From there
I realized that I wasn't in love with
00:12:56:01 - 00:13:00:11
my wife and we, decided to get a divorce.
00:13:02:01 - 00:13:05:01
and we went through,
00:13:05:04 - 00:13:08:16
I forget what it was called,
kind of a mediation, sort of.
00:13:08:16 - 00:13:10:09
Collaborative law. Club book.
00:13:10:09 - 00:13:10:23
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:10:23 - 00:13:12:13
Collaborative, family law. Yes.
00:13:12:13 - 00:13:15:06
What it was called.
00:13:15:06 - 00:13:18:06
Was a collaborative.
00:13:19:17 - 00:13:21:12
And yeah
00:13:21:12 - 00:13:24:17
I think it worked out
in, in the children's favor.
00:13:24:17 - 00:13:27:17
It, it might have been a little expensive
00:13:28:08 - 00:13:31:08
for me in the long run, but
00:13:32:07 - 00:13:34:07
but we came up I think the,
00:13:34:07 - 00:13:37:07
the best thing about it is
we came up with,
00:13:38:08 - 00:13:40:20
a nice schedule that, the children
00:13:40:20 - 00:13:43:20
share time at my house and,
00:13:44:13 - 00:13:46:14
their mom's house.
00:13:46:14 - 00:13:49:14
so really, I get to see then,
00:13:50:04 - 00:13:52:18
every day of the week, except for Mondays.
00:13:52:18 - 00:13:54:10
So that's,
00:13:54:10 - 00:13:56:14
that's
00:13:56:14 - 00:13:58:15
I know some someone in our audience
00:13:58:15 - 00:14:01:20
is very curious
about how to achieve achieve that.
00:14:01:20 - 00:14:04:23
And we can, answer questions later.
00:14:06:10 - 00:14:08:19
what's, I know you're so
00:14:08:19 - 00:14:12:21
kind and gentle
and I don't know if you mind sharing
00:14:12:21 - 00:14:14:03
what's the toughest part,
00:14:14:03 - 00:14:16:17
because I know you have an
in collaborative law situation.
00:14:16:17 - 00:14:18:09
It's not easy. It.
00:14:18:09 - 00:14:24:00
Yes, it's collaborative, but we're still
dividing two people's life and assets.
00:14:24:00 - 00:14:24:09
Right.
00:14:24:09 - 00:14:27:21
And and so what's the tough part?
00:14:29:20 - 00:14:32:24
I guess at the time,
I didn't have a very good lawyer.
00:14:33:19 - 00:14:37:15
and my ex-wife
did have a very good lawyer.
00:14:38:03 - 00:14:39:19
And so I guess.
00:14:39:19 - 00:14:44:03
I tell me, what does it not
not a not a good, not so good lawyer mean.
00:14:44:04 - 00:14:47:04
Well, I, I told him what my
00:14:47:12 - 00:14:50:00
what my goals were, what I wanted.
00:14:50:00 - 00:14:53:04
And, he didn't
really actually say anything,
00:14:53:04 - 00:14:57:00
so I didn't stand up to,
you know, the other lawyer in the room.
00:14:57:00 - 00:15:00:17
So I felt it like it was me
00:15:00:17 - 00:15:04:05
against my ex-wife and her lawyer with,
00:15:04:12 - 00:15:08:01
with my lawyer, just kind of sitting back
and taking notes.
00:15:08:19 - 00:15:12:22
That's really all he did in that process
is, is take notes and.
00:15:12:22 - 00:15:17:08
Yeah, when it came time
to argue on my behalf, I looked at him.
00:15:18:01 - 00:15:21:05
He looked at me
and looked back to his notes.
00:15:22:19 - 00:15:26:15
So, yeah, no one likens me to lawyers.
00:15:26:15 - 00:15:27:02
An hour.
00:15:27:02 - 00:15:29:01
To take notes then and not if.
00:15:29:01 - 00:15:32:02
Not, I think I was paying him
about $300. To,
00:15:35:24 - 00:15:38:24
no, to to
00:15:39:16 - 00:15:42:01
respect to, to the lawyers, but it's
00:15:42:01 - 00:15:45:24
I think you're talking about the dynamic
between your side and the other side.
00:15:46:06 - 00:15:49:14
And, I,
I have clients that in collaborative law,
00:15:50:23 - 00:15:55:04
situation is it seems like it's always one
side is more aggressive, one side.
00:15:55:05 - 00:15:56:15
The side is more collaborative.
00:15:56:15 - 00:15:59:04
That's why I asked, like,
how collaborative?
00:15:59:04 - 00:15:59:22
yeah. What's the I.
00:15:59:22 - 00:16:03:06
Think you I think you still need
to, Advocate for yourself.
00:16:03:12 - 00:16:06:09
To advocate or get if you can't do that,
00:16:06:09 - 00:16:09:09
if you're not great at arguing and
00:16:09:09 - 00:16:12:03
and make sure that you still
do have a really good lawyer.
00:16:13:05 - 00:16:14:00
Because the way.
00:16:14:00 - 00:16:17:06
Yeah, the way it was presented to me
is like everyone's looking out
00:16:17:06 - 00:16:21:20
for everyone else and yeah, rainbows
and puppies and unicorns.
00:16:21:20 - 00:16:23:17
And oh like in the collaborative law.
00:16:23:17 - 00:16:25:06
Like I'm trying to be something.
00:16:25:06 - 00:16:25:20
Yeah.
00:16:25:20 - 00:16:28:12
But it wasn't it's not it's still.
00:16:28:12 - 00:16:30:23
Yeah, yeah it's still everybody is.
00:16:30:23 - 00:16:31:16
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:31:16 - 00:16:33:05
You get as much as they can get.
00:16:33:05 - 00:16:35:08
Yeah. So, Yeah, yeah.
00:16:35:08 - 00:16:38:16
If you advocating is, for yourself
00:16:38:17 - 00:16:41:17
is key and especially from,
00:16:42:03 - 00:16:44:04
even interviewing your lawyer.
00:16:44:04 - 00:16:45:01
Right. It's okay.
00:16:45:01 - 00:16:48:15
Like, you can choose your lawyer because
it's a, it's a such a key partnership.
00:16:49:06 - 00:16:50:22
in the whole divorce journey.
00:16:50:22 - 00:16:54:15
Like, you gotta find the right lawyer
that aligns, understands
00:16:54:15 - 00:16:58:17
you and aligns, with your values
and your goals.
00:16:58:17 - 00:17:01:00
And that's very important.
00:17:02:11 - 00:17:05:03
so what would you say
00:17:05:03 - 00:17:08:14
is the biggest lesson
you learned through that process?
00:17:08:14 - 00:17:11:14
How long did it take?
00:17:12:02 - 00:17:12:22
well, not very well.
00:17:12:22 - 00:17:15:22
I don't remember exactly, but,
00:17:16:20 - 00:17:20:16
I think the whole the whole negotiation
process only took a few months.
00:17:20:22 - 00:17:21:24
Oh. That's fast.
00:17:21:24 - 00:17:23:23
Yeah, but it went fairly quickly.
00:17:23:23 - 00:17:29:07
And then then we had to wait a year after
that until, until the divorce was final.
00:17:29:20 - 00:17:30:02
yeah.
00:17:30:02 - 00:17:33:02
That's normal, but negotiation was down
fairly.
00:17:33:06 - 00:17:36:06
Yeah. Quickly. Yeah.
00:17:36:11 - 00:17:39:11
what would you say is the biggest mistake
00:17:39:12 - 00:17:42:24
you made during that negotiation process
00:17:42:24 - 00:17:46:05
other than hiring a lawyer, which was not,
00:17:47:08 - 00:17:49:11
too aggressive?
00:17:49:11 - 00:17:53:02
Well, one thing I didn't know
until after everything was signed
00:17:53:02 - 00:17:56:05
is that that the father's entitled
to half the time.
00:17:58:01 - 00:17:59:18
which
00:17:59:18 - 00:18:02:05
I got more than half of the waking time,
00:18:02:05 - 00:18:06:08
but one less, one less night, which,
00:18:08:16 - 00:18:11:16
made me.
00:18:11:17 - 00:18:13:06
Have to pay more money.
00:18:13:06 - 00:18:17:09
Because it's based on how many nights they
stay with one parent and the other end.
00:18:17:09 - 00:18:18:06
Right. Okay, so.
00:18:18:06 - 00:18:21:06
So that's something that my lawyer didn't
tell me, but but,
00:18:22:07 - 00:18:24:02
my ex-wife did know that.
00:18:24:02 - 00:18:29:20
So she negotiated hard to get,
to get one extra night with the kids. and.
00:18:29:20 - 00:18:32:09
So you to child support.
00:18:32:09 - 00:18:33:09
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:18:33:09 - 00:18:35:22
Because of because of that. So.
00:18:35:22 - 00:18:39:00
So when we were negotiating for time,
00:18:39:00 - 00:18:43:07
I thought I had won that, that battle
because I had more waking time I got.
00:18:43:15 - 00:18:48:09
Yeah, I got one more, more,
dinner with the kids than what she did.
00:18:48:09 - 00:18:50:04
So I felt like I had one. Yeah.
00:18:50:04 - 00:18:54:06
Until we realized, you know, after
everything was signed.
00:18:54:06 - 00:18:56:14
That's the reason I was paying so much.
00:18:56:14 - 00:19:00:06
child support
is because she has one more, one more.
00:19:00:15 - 00:19:01:18
night. Night with. The.
00:19:01:18 - 00:19:05:09
Yeah, but winning or losing, it's
all relatives, right?
00:19:05:09 - 00:19:07:17
Yeah, yeah. So I still I still did.
00:19:07:17 - 00:19:08:22
Yeah. Get what I want.
00:19:08:22 - 00:19:11:15
I had more time with the kids. Exactly.
Yeah. It's.
00:19:11:15 - 00:19:12:15
I guess it's worth the money.
00:19:12:15 - 00:19:15:15
Yeah, yeah.
And especially when we think about,
00:19:16:17 - 00:19:19:06
your biggest fear at the time,
take the step.
00:19:19:06 - 00:19:22:06
It's losing quality time and access
00:19:22:13 - 00:19:25:11
to your kids, which you didn't.
00:19:25:11 - 00:19:28:11
And that fear, like you said,
00:19:28:11 - 00:19:31:20
was didn't have legs ultimately.
00:19:31:20 - 00:19:34:06
And even though.
Yeah, maybe you pay a little bit.
00:19:34:06 - 00:19:35:16
No, I don't know how much.
00:19:35:16 - 00:19:39:20
A little bit a lot like depends
on how you look at money.
00:19:39:20 - 00:19:46:07
But ultimately it's, it's a win
because you get to spend time
00:19:46:17 - 00:19:49:21
with your daughters quality time too. And,
00:19:51:17 - 00:19:52:16
yeah.
00:19:52:16 - 00:19:55:16
Awesome. So.
00:19:55:18 - 00:19:59:09
I, I want to go back to this a little bit.
00:19:59:18 - 00:20:01:14
You said
00:20:01:14 - 00:20:03:17
that one year you spend
00:20:03:17 - 00:20:06:09
still trying to save your marriage,
basically.
00:20:06:09 - 00:20:07:13
Okay.
00:20:07:13 - 00:20:11:22
you said I, I realized I basically
this is not what I want.
00:20:11:22 - 00:20:14:03
I'm fighting for something I didn't want.
00:20:14:03 - 00:20:17:10
Tell me about that realization. Okay.
00:20:19:03 - 00:20:19:19
Yeah. So.
00:20:19:19 - 00:20:24:14
So after my wife found out
about the affair, I cut off the affair.
00:20:24:22 - 00:20:26:22
I did see,
00:20:26:22 - 00:20:29:22
her again.
00:20:30:09 - 00:20:33:09
And, you know, we went into counseling, I.
00:20:33:10 - 00:20:36:10
Yeah, I spent a year,
00:20:37:08 - 00:20:39:03
first sleeping at my mother's house
00:20:39:03 - 00:20:42:03
and then sleeping in separate beds.
00:20:43:00 - 00:20:46:00
and, you know, going to counseling.
00:20:47:22 - 00:20:51:00
and. Yeah.
00:20:51:00 - 00:20:56:01
Really, really trying hard to,
you know, say all the right things to to.
00:20:56:07 - 00:20:57:22
Yeah.
00:20:57:22 - 00:20:59:07
Be the person.
00:20:59:07 - 00:20:59:16
Yeah.
00:20:59:16 - 00:21:02:16
To be a committed husband.
00:21:03:00 - 00:21:06:00
but, you know, still
still with the wrong person.
00:21:06:15 - 00:21:08:01
That's, Yeah.
00:21:08:01 - 00:21:11:01
So it, it was a, it was a difficult year.
00:21:12:16 - 00:21:15:16
For sure difficult in one sense.
00:21:17:11 - 00:21:19:02
difficult I guess
00:21:19:02 - 00:21:22:02
emotionally I was, I was feeling guilty.
00:21:23:04 - 00:21:26:09
for for most of the time that year for
you know,
00:21:27:15 - 00:21:28:13
you know, having
00:21:29:21 - 00:21:32:21
having had an affair,
00:21:34:05 - 00:21:35:14
and yeah.
00:21:35:14 - 00:21:38:14
Not really having anyone to,
00:21:38:21 - 00:21:41:21
to, you know.
00:21:42:23 - 00:21:44:09
Be on my side.
00:21:44:09 - 00:21:45:23
other than my mom was on my side.
00:21:45:23 - 00:21:49:00
That was, you know, she was
she was always in my corner.
00:21:49:08 - 00:21:51:13
But, it's also difficult.
00:21:51:13 - 00:21:54:13
I was in a church community
at the time who,
00:21:55:20 - 00:21:59:14
churches can be very judgmental, and,
and I kind of lost that,
00:21:59:21 - 00:22:03:04
the circle, that circle of friends,
00:22:04:08 - 00:22:08:06
that, that had been a part of my life,
you know, since I was a kid.
00:22:08:23 - 00:22:11:23
And, yeah.
00:22:12:07 - 00:22:16:11
When things get really tough, I guess you
realize who, who your real friends are.
00:22:16:19 - 00:22:18:20
And, I know me.
00:22:18:20 - 00:22:23:14
Some, some of the people who
I really thought were were friends.
00:22:24:03 - 00:22:26:03
definitely weren't,
00:22:26:03 - 00:22:29:03
And, and,
00:22:31:12 - 00:22:33:00
It's similar to
00:22:33:00 - 00:22:37:01
when you, go through this divorce journey
and the marriage, too.
00:22:37:02 - 00:22:37:09
Right?
00:22:37:09 - 00:22:41:04
And you start, you start to look
at all of the relationship around you and
00:22:41:05 - 00:22:46:17
and realize, oh, okay,
not only my marriage wasn't maybe good.
00:22:46:23 - 00:22:50:04
And you look around,
it's like you start to look at other,
00:22:50:13 - 00:22:52:06
other relationships as well.
00:22:52:06 - 00:22:53:15
The qualities of that,
00:22:55:00 - 00:22:58:00
the guilty talk about is,
00:22:58:06 - 00:23:01:06
the idea that I shouldn't
have had an affair.
00:23:02:09 - 00:23:06:00
what about other emotions
as you were trying to make
00:23:06:00 - 00:23:09:24
this marriage work,
but realizing, oh, no, it's not working.
00:23:09:24 - 00:23:11:22
This is not what I wanted.
00:23:11:22 - 00:23:14:13
What are what what did you feel there?
00:23:14:13 - 00:23:15:15
Was there guilt?
00:23:15:15 - 00:23:18:04
And was there something else?
00:23:18:04 - 00:23:18:13
Well, a.
00:23:18:13 - 00:23:20:15
Lot of loneliness.
00:23:20:15 - 00:23:23:15
I think,
00:23:24:06 - 00:23:27:04
probably the loneliest
I've ever been in my life. Was.
00:23:27:04 - 00:23:29:16
Was when I was married.
00:23:29:16 - 00:23:32:20
you know, after I found, after I was,
00:23:34:14 - 00:23:37:14
after I was single again.
00:23:38:17 - 00:23:40:13
you know, I could meet lots of people.
00:23:40:13 - 00:23:43:21
I had a social life again. But,
00:23:47:19 - 00:23:48:00
Yeah.
00:23:48:00 - 00:23:49:11
Being.
00:23:49:11 - 00:23:52:18
I guess it's ironic
because a lot of people get married to,
00:23:53:09 - 00:23:55:23
to, to not be lonely, to have someone,
00:23:57:12 - 00:23:59:17
you know, to fill a void.
00:23:59:17 - 00:24:01:15
but, Yeah.
00:24:01:15 - 00:24:05:15
Being in a bad marriage, it's,
it's probably the loneliest,
00:24:06:14 - 00:24:09:14
possible thing that, that
00:24:09:15 - 00:24:10:02
that you can.
00:24:10:02 - 00:24:11:14
One can experience. Yourself in.
00:24:11:14 - 00:24:14:14
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:14:16 - 00:24:20:03
That's a big one. So.
00:24:25:10 - 00:24:28:10
I want to ask it because
00:24:28:20 - 00:24:31:20
there was it's
00:24:31:20 - 00:24:34:20
how do I, how do I ask this question. So.
00:24:37:17 - 00:24:40:02
Affair is not uncommon.
00:24:40:02 - 00:24:43:05
It seems like
there is more and more and more.
00:24:43:11 - 00:24:45:04
Oh let me ask you this question.
00:24:45:04 - 00:24:47:19
Okay.
00:24:47:19 - 00:24:49:00
What do you think.
00:24:49:00 - 00:24:52:00
Do you think?
00:24:53:01 - 00:24:54:22
When you had the affair,
00:24:54:22 - 00:24:58:17
were you running away from the marriage
00:24:58:17 - 00:25:01:17
or were you running toward the
00:25:02:01 - 00:25:05:01
this new relationship?
00:25:07:05 - 00:25:09:17
that's a great question.
00:25:09:17 - 00:25:12:04
I've never really thought about it
in, in that term
00:25:12:04 - 00:25:15:04
before.
00:25:15:10 - 00:25:18:09
the way
I, I kind of always thought about it as
00:25:19:18 - 00:25:20:00
being
00:25:20:00 - 00:25:23:15
in that marriage was really bad
for my self-esteem. And,
00:25:25:02 - 00:25:28:02
you know, the way I psychoanalyzed myself
after
00:25:28:02 - 00:25:31:02
after all this was over, was that,
00:25:33:11 - 00:25:35:01
what that
00:25:35:01 - 00:25:40:02
what that, affair gave me
was a lot of ego boost.
00:25:40:20 - 00:25:43:17
so all of a sudden, I found someone who.
00:25:43:17 - 00:25:46:12
Who actually liked me,
who wanted to be with me,
00:25:46:12 - 00:25:49:12
who who was giving me,
you know, the attention.
00:25:49:12 - 00:25:52:20
The, you know,
the verbal affirmations, the,
00:25:52:20 - 00:25:55:22
you know, the positivity
that that I wasn't getting at home.
00:25:56:14 - 00:25:59:20
And, Yeah.
00:25:59:20 - 00:26:02:14
So that,
00:26:02:14 - 00:26:05:06
that's.
00:26:05:06 - 00:26:08:06
Probably why I did what I did,
00:26:08:08 - 00:26:11:10
so, Is that just, Yeah.
00:26:11:10 - 00:26:14:10
It, it filled the need that,
00:26:14:16 - 00:26:17:13
you know, and I wasn't thinking that way.
00:26:17:13 - 00:26:17:21
Of course.
00:26:17:21 - 00:26:23:03
I'm just, you know, you know, the emotions
of how this is true love.
00:26:23:03 - 00:26:25:15
This is, this is Yeah.
00:26:27:05 - 00:26:29:07
Yeah.
00:26:29:07 - 00:26:29:14
Yeah.
00:26:29:14 - 00:26:32:14
I've finally found my soulmate. yeah.
00:26:33:00 - 00:26:35:21
So that's
00:26:35:21 - 00:26:38:21
But but maybe that wasn't true
at the time.
00:26:39:06 - 00:26:42:06
I was going to ask was it true love.
00:26:43:23 - 00:26:45:22
There was definitely love there.
00:26:45:22 - 00:26:48:23
like that stronger love
than what I ever had
00:26:48:23 - 00:26:51:23
for my wife.
00:26:52:09 - 00:26:53:16
so, so yeah,
00:26:53:16 - 00:26:56:16
I would say it was, it was true.
00:26:58:09 - 00:27:01:09
That that relationship has ended. And,
00:27:02:10 - 00:27:05:10
you know, for, for different reasons.
00:27:06:19 - 00:27:10:00
But, but, yeah, I still,
00:27:10:00 - 00:27:13:07
I still respect
and care for, for her as well.
00:27:14:01 - 00:27:15:18
even though I found out
00:27:15:18 - 00:27:18:19
that we're less compatible
than than what we thought we were.
00:27:19:14 - 00:27:21:22
Way back then.
00:27:21:22 - 00:27:24:09
But, but yeah I think, I think there was,
00:27:24:09 - 00:27:27:09
it was true up there.
00:27:28:05 - 00:27:30:13
So what would you answer the question.
00:27:30:13 - 00:27:34:14
Were you running away from them from
the marriage or wanting to running toward.
00:27:35:01 - 00:27:37:07
Or is it maybe half and half.
00:27:37:07 - 00:27:38:22
Or maybe maybe half and half.
00:27:38:22 - 00:27:40:10
I don't think there's really an.
00:27:40:10 - 00:27:43:04
Appetite for your. Answer. For that.
00:27:45:12 - 00:27:48:07
So what would you,
00:27:48:07 - 00:27:52:15
what advice
would you give to a person who.
00:27:54:18 - 00:27:57:03
Is in a marriage.
00:27:57:03 - 00:28:01:11
maybe not so fulfilling and satisfying.
00:28:02:08 - 00:28:05:22
maybe they are thinking, oh,
is this the marriage that I want to stay?
00:28:05:22 - 00:28:07:14
Is this person?
00:28:07:14 - 00:28:10:14
And, maybe
00:28:11:03 - 00:28:14:03
there may be even opportunity for them to,
00:28:14:13 - 00:28:16:23
quote unquote, would have an affair.
00:28:16:23 - 00:28:19:06
what would what advice
would you give them?
00:28:19:06 - 00:28:21:24
I would say first,
00:28:21:24 - 00:28:26:11
first and foremost,
just be brave and talk to your partner.
00:28:26:11 - 00:28:31:05
Say life partner,
I mean your current spouse, and say, hey,
00:28:31:05 - 00:28:35:19
this this is what I'm feeling, but I mean,
not the, not the person you're ready to
00:28:37:08 - 00:28:37:23
get married.
00:28:37:23 - 00:28:40:05
Good clarification.
00:28:40:05 - 00:28:43:18
And, so, so talk to your husband
00:28:43:18 - 00:28:46:18
or wife or partner.
00:28:47:03 - 00:28:49:02
and, you know, be very clear.
00:28:49:02 - 00:28:50:16
Say, say I'm unhappy,
00:28:52:11 - 00:28:55:11
with the way things are, and tell them
00:28:56:12 - 00:28:59:12
your reasons.
00:29:02:18 - 00:29:03:19
And see
00:29:03:19 - 00:29:06:23
if see if it's something you can fix.
00:29:06:23 - 00:29:11:02
And, you know, look inside yourself, see
if it's something that you want to fix.
00:29:12:00 - 00:29:14:10
And if it is, give that a shot first.
00:29:14:10 - 00:29:17:10
And if that doesn't work, then.
00:29:17:14 - 00:29:18:00
Yeah.
00:29:18:00 - 00:29:21:00
And find a good lawyer.
00:29:23:03 - 00:29:26:03
I think that lessons and,
00:29:26:10 - 00:29:30:04
in, in, in my case, in my,
00:29:30:15 - 00:29:33:15
divorce and, there's this,
00:29:35:03 - 00:29:37:17
infidelity on the, on the other side.
00:29:37:17 - 00:29:42:21
So I studied it a lot and, and read
all the books I could get my hands on.
00:29:44:03 - 00:29:47:19
I think the idea that you're suggesting
is that no matter what happens,
00:29:47:19 - 00:29:48:12
what do you choose?
00:29:48:12 - 00:29:51:23
Stay in the marriage
or leave the marriage or whatever.
00:29:51:23 - 00:29:54:18
Even, having an affair.
That's your choice.
00:29:54:18 - 00:29:57:24
It's really ultimately,
you need to figure out
00:29:58:16 - 00:30:02:22
what what do you want
and what's fulfilling for you
00:30:03:09 - 00:30:07:03
right before I think you kept saying
I wasn't happy
00:30:07:07 - 00:30:10:11
and my ex told me,
I haven't been happy for a long time.
00:30:10:17 - 00:30:11:02
Okay.
00:30:12:02 - 00:30:15:00
I was shocked, but,
00:30:15:00 - 00:30:17:12
the idea that
00:30:17:12 - 00:30:21:18
that we hinge our happiness on
the other person is just not a good idea.
00:30:22:02 - 00:30:24:16
Yeah. What do you say that.
I would say that. Yeah.
00:30:24:16 - 00:30:27:16
I think you need to find happiness
in yourself first.
00:30:29:14 - 00:30:30:06
before.
00:30:30:06 - 00:30:33:00
Before you can be happy in a relationship.
00:30:33:00 - 00:30:36:00
Yeah. But,
00:30:36:00 - 00:30:36:12
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:36:12 - 00:30:41:11
But yeah, it's, it's hard to do that if,
Yeah things are bad.
00:30:41:22 - 00:30:44:13
And you don't know.
00:30:44:13 - 00:30:46:00
Yes. And things.
00:30:46:00 - 00:30:49:03
Yes. And, and you didn't feel like
you have any support.
00:30:49:03 - 00:30:52:11
And I remember after my ex,
00:30:54:08 - 00:30:56:01
disclosed that,
00:30:56:01 - 00:30:59:14
his infidelity,
he was like, I, I who do I talk to?
00:30:59:15 - 00:31:01:15
I didn't have anyone I could talk to.
00:31:01:15 - 00:31:03:03
I think
00:31:03:03 - 00:31:06:03
whether I talk to a therapist
at like a third
00:31:06:08 - 00:31:09:08
unrelated party, it's it's,
if you have some
00:31:09:15 - 00:31:10:20
if you're
00:31:10:20 - 00:31:14:07
in this kind of relationship affair
or if you're considering talking to
00:31:14:07 - 00:31:18:24
someone who's not related to anything,
or your circle could be really helpful,
00:31:18:24 - 00:31:20:19
whatever that is. Sometimes it could be,
00:31:22:06 - 00:31:26:05
and an elderly or someone from the church
00:31:26:05 - 00:31:29:07
and it could be
someone you can trust them.
00:31:30:03 - 00:31:31:02
thank you for sharing that.
00:31:31:02 - 00:31:34:02
I know that's that that that's
that's that's hard.
00:31:34:02 - 00:31:39:05
It's also I want to touch on that because
I know it's it's so common infidelity.
00:31:39:05 - 00:31:44:08
And in today's world and I think we,
we should, we should talk about it.
00:31:44:21 - 00:31:47:21
We shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist. We,
00:31:48:17 - 00:31:51:17
we also shouldn't
just condemn the person who,
00:31:53:05 - 00:31:55:09
you know, commit,
00:31:55:09 - 00:31:56:21
commit even the word I'm using.
00:31:56:21 - 00:31:59:03
You're committing an affair.
00:31:59:03 - 00:32:01:08
is that we're all human.
00:32:01:08 - 00:32:04:18
Like anyone could be put
into that position and make that decision.
00:32:04:23 - 00:32:05:07
Right?
00:32:05:07 - 00:32:08:17
And, it's like pointing fingers
and not the right way.
00:32:09:16 - 00:32:12:01
so thank you for sharing that.
00:32:12:01 - 00:32:14:24
so the divorce came along
00:32:14:24 - 00:32:18:16
and how did the kids transition
into two households?
00:32:20:04 - 00:32:20:13
Really?
00:32:20:13 - 00:32:23:13
Well, actually.
00:32:23:24 - 00:32:26:24
hey, so the most dramatic moment,
00:32:28:13 - 00:32:30:18
actually wasn't
when we decided to get divorced.
00:32:30:18 - 00:32:33:16
It was,
00:32:33:16 - 00:32:35:11
When,
00:32:35:11 - 00:32:37:24
Well, basically, when,
00:32:37:24 - 00:32:40:01
their mom found out about the affair
00:32:40:01 - 00:32:43:01
and I got kicked out
of the house, basically.
00:32:43:09 - 00:32:47:13
And there was a lot of emotion
at that at that time.
00:32:48:15 - 00:32:52:07
And we told the kids in the midst of
00:32:52:21 - 00:32:56:01
of all that emotion, and they cried.
00:32:56:01 - 00:32:58:02
And it was.
00:32:58:02 - 00:33:00:18
Yeah, it was that was a scene.
00:33:00:18 - 00:33:02:21
And that was very difficult to that.
00:33:02:21 - 00:33:06:09
We did that in the wrong way. But,
00:33:08:11 - 00:33:11:11
you know, a year later when we decided to,
00:33:11:13 - 00:33:14:13
to actually get a divorce,
00:33:15:04 - 00:33:18:02
we told them, yeah,
00:33:18:02 - 00:33:21:02
in a,
you know, in a more controlled way and.
00:33:21:12 - 00:33:23:11
regulate it away. Yeah, yeah.
00:33:23:11 - 00:33:27:22
And intentionally and explained
how things were going to work
00:33:27:22 - 00:33:31:19
and that they would still
be loved and cared for and,
00:33:32:24 - 00:33:35:24
have two homes and,
00:33:36:24 - 00:33:37:20
that wasn't,
00:33:37:20 - 00:33:41:04
that wasn't,
as hard a transition for them.
00:33:41:04 - 00:33:44:13
They, you know, I, I asked,
00:33:45:18 - 00:33:48:06
my oldest daughter recently.
00:33:48:06 - 00:33:48:21
yeah.
00:33:48:21 - 00:33:52:17
What she thinks of her life and the way
things are actually say, oh, great.
00:33:52:17 - 00:33:57:04
I get two Christmases, you know,
celebrate, celebrate my birthday twice.
00:33:57:09 - 00:33:58:17
Twice as many presents.
00:33:58:17 - 00:34:02:20
And so, you know, and I know that's
a very superficial thing, but, yeah,
00:34:02:21 - 00:34:05:24
she was saying that kind of sincerely
and and.
00:34:06:00 - 00:34:06:12
Yeah.
00:34:06:12 - 00:34:09:19
She feels supported and loved
given the two households.
00:34:09:24 - 00:34:10:20
yeah. Both houses.
00:34:10:20 - 00:34:13:20
She's she's happy.
00:34:14:22 - 00:34:17:23
That really just shows that even,
you know, when divorce happens,
00:34:17:23 - 00:34:21:03
if two parents can be supportive and truly
and the law says
00:34:21:03 - 00:34:24:03
you should put their interests,
your children's interests
00:34:24:15 - 00:34:28:08
as top priority, but when in reality
it's not always the case,
00:34:28:16 - 00:34:32:15
but when parents actually
can do that, it can really,
00:34:33:17 - 00:34:34:16
despite the divorce,
00:34:34:16 - 00:34:37:16
can help the kids
not only survive, but thrive.
00:34:37:18 - 00:34:40:18
And if both parents play
00:34:40:18 - 00:34:43:23
as a team on the parenting front, well,
00:34:43:23 - 00:34:47:19
that they can put aside
whatever their disagreements are.
00:34:48:04 - 00:34:51:02
So yeah, awesome.
00:34:51:02 - 00:34:52:15
What are difficult?
00:34:52:15 - 00:34:55:14
Were there moments of challenge,
though, in
00:34:55:14 - 00:34:58:14
co-parenting?
00:35:01:14 - 00:35:05:07
A you yeah, it's always the, yeah.
00:35:05:16 - 00:35:09:23
When you have to contact your,
your ex and, you know, now this is,
00:35:10:12 - 00:35:13:12
sometimes always yeah.
00:35:13:21 - 00:35:17:10
Yeah,
it feels like a bit of a drag sometimes.
00:35:18:03 - 00:35:18:22
to communicate.
00:35:18:22 - 00:35:21:09
Yeah. but, yeah, you just.
00:35:21:09 - 00:35:21:17
Yeah.
00:35:21:17 - 00:35:22:08
Like the bullet.
00:35:22:08 - 00:35:25:08
And this is. This is for the kids.
00:35:25:20 - 00:35:26:03
Yeah.
00:35:26:03 - 00:35:30:24
Well, being in you, you do that,
you know, go to medical appointments
00:35:30:24 - 00:35:33:24
together if, if need be.
00:35:35:07 - 00:35:37:11
and some.
00:35:37:11 - 00:35:39:11
Yeah. I think sometimes yeah.
00:35:39:11 - 00:35:42:22
The financial thing is
what's the hardest is.
00:35:42:23 - 00:35:46:21
Yeah, I, I extended myself
is absolutely as far as I could
00:35:47:22 - 00:35:48:10
and then when
00:35:48:10 - 00:35:51:18
their extra little, little payment
expenses.
00:35:51:21 - 00:35:52:10
Yeah.
00:35:52:10 - 00:35:57:13
The dental, the braces that,
that sort of thing on top of expensive,
00:35:58:00 - 00:36:01:00
child support that, that feels like,
00:36:03:01 - 00:36:03:18
compounded.
00:36:03:18 - 00:36:04:15
It. Yes.
00:36:04:15 - 00:36:07:15
You have. Yeah. That's difficult.
00:36:08:01 - 00:36:11:01
but, yeah, that's only money, you.
00:36:11:09 - 00:36:11:18
Know.
00:36:11:18 - 00:36:14:15
You get through it. Yeah.
00:36:14:15 - 00:36:14:21
Yeah.
00:36:14:21 - 00:36:16:20
Work hard.
00:36:16:20 - 00:36:19:20
I guess the question
I know some of my clients would ask like
00:36:19:20 - 00:36:22:20
how many bullets do
you have to fight though.
00:36:23:22 - 00:36:24:17
What, what.
00:36:24:17 - 00:36:26:15
Yeah.
00:36:26:15 - 00:36:27:01
yeah.
00:36:27:01 - 00:36:32:19
But how do you on the emotional front
like kind of I mean eight years later
00:36:32:19 - 00:36:36:13
probably you went through a lot of inner
dialog and trying to calm yourself down.
00:36:36:13 - 00:36:38:21
Probably your spiritual pursuits too.
00:36:38:21 - 00:36:41:10
That helps. And,
00:36:41:10 - 00:36:42:20
how did you get your,
00:36:42:20 - 00:36:46:08
your yourself to a place to be like,
oh, you know, it's just money.
00:36:46:14 - 00:36:49:05
I know it's easy to say,
but it's it's hard.
00:36:49:05 - 00:36:49:12
Yeah.
00:36:51:21 - 00:36:52:00
yeah.
00:36:52:00 - 00:36:55:00
I think that's maybe more
in my personal journey.
00:36:55:11 - 00:36:58:06
that, I think
00:36:58:06 - 00:37:00:21
yoga has helped a lot with that. yeah.
00:37:00:21 - 00:37:03:12
Everybody do yoga? Yeah. Eastern light.
00:37:03:12 - 00:37:06:00
And by yoga,
I don't mean the the asana practice.
00:37:06:00 - 00:37:07:17
You know, you're going to exercise.
00:37:07:17 - 00:37:12:05
Yeah, that not as exercise, but,
the grander sort of.
00:37:12:08 - 00:37:13:15
Of meditation.
00:37:13:15 - 00:37:17:13
Philosophy and,
you know, detaching yourself from,
00:37:18:05 - 00:37:21:09
from caring so much about,
material possessions,
00:37:22:03 - 00:37:25:11
realizing that that the world around us
isn't,
00:37:26:22 - 00:37:27:19
isn't what's real.
00:37:27:19 - 00:37:30:19
What's real
is what's inside the permanent,
00:37:30:19 - 00:37:33:12
part of the person.
00:37:33:12 - 00:37:36:12
And, and really working and,
00:37:38:19 - 00:37:40:12
On your self,
00:37:40:12 - 00:37:43:21
the permanent part of yourself
is, is more important than.
00:37:44:00 - 00:37:47:00
Yeah, how much money you have
at the end of the year.
00:37:47:02 - 00:37:48:18
How much you save and.
00:37:48:18 - 00:37:50:01
Yeah.
00:37:50:01 - 00:37:52:03
Of detached detaching is hard.
00:37:53:07 - 00:37:54:18
not letting go peace.
00:37:54:18 - 00:37:59:01
But super empowering and freeing
when you can realize
00:37:59:01 - 00:38:02:01
it's like oh it's just money or.
00:38:03:02 - 00:38:04:01
It's not all of.
00:38:04:01 - 00:38:06:00
The lawyers stop working right now.
00:38:06:00 - 00:38:07:09
Because of all.
00:38:07:09 - 00:38:08:02
You know, imagine what a.
00:38:08:02 - 00:38:10:04
Peaceful protest.
00:38:10:04 - 00:38:13:07
Yes. Just go sit down and meditate.
00:38:13:13 - 00:38:14:16
Very few of us are there.
00:38:14:16 - 00:38:15:19
I'm not there yet.
00:38:15:19 - 00:38:18:00
Yeah. And yeah, yeah, I'm working.
00:38:18:00 - 00:38:18:17
Working on it.
00:38:18:17 - 00:38:19:18
It's a long journey.
00:38:19:18 - 00:38:21:21
Yeah. Long journey.
Yeah. It's like a long journey.
00:38:21:21 - 00:38:23:04
Many lifelong.
00:38:23:04 - 00:38:24:15
Many lives. Yeah.
00:38:24:15 - 00:38:27:12
So I,
I love you emphasize like ultimately the
00:38:27:12 - 00:38:32:04
the bullets you bite in communicating
with your ex and co-parenting
00:38:32:04 - 00:38:36:16
ultimately it's, it's
how do you work on your inner self.
00:38:37:11 - 00:38:38:22
where can you find peace?
00:38:38:22 - 00:38:43:13
How can you find peace regardless
of how the other person act or react?
00:38:43:13 - 00:38:46:00
And, that's, that's the real work
00:38:47:07 - 00:38:50:07
is, what I'm hearing.
00:38:50:11 - 00:38:53:11
how how about post divorce?
00:38:53:11 - 00:38:54:18
recovery?
00:38:54:18 - 00:38:56:17
And you said you ended with the fear.
00:38:56:17 - 00:38:58:11
And how did that come about?
00:38:58:11 - 00:39:01:23
And did you did you guys. Yeah.
00:39:01:23 - 00:39:05:07
Well, once we decided to get divorced,
I, I started seeing,
00:39:06:17 - 00:39:09:17
her again, and.
00:39:10:06 - 00:39:13:06
Yeah, that was that was fun.
00:39:14:04 - 00:39:16:11
you know,
00:39:16:11 - 00:39:17:07
later, we.
00:39:17:07 - 00:39:20:01
Yeah,
we decided we weren't on the same path.
00:39:20:01 - 00:39:23:01
She was, you know, from a very,
00:39:23:03 - 00:39:24:15
conservative Christian home.
00:39:24:15 - 00:39:28:14
And I was doing a lot of different
spiritual practices,
00:39:29:11 - 00:39:33:03
Reiki and, past life regressions and,
00:39:33:16 - 00:39:36:22
you know, I, I took that class in,
00:39:37:17 - 00:39:41:19
in becoming a medium and that,
I think scared,
00:39:42:03 - 00:39:46:13
scared her and was, a big factor
in ending that relationship.
00:39:46:14 - 00:39:48:18
What's what's become a medium.
00:39:48:18 - 00:39:51:07
A medium like, Well, what?
00:39:51:07 - 00:39:52:13
My mother passed away.
00:39:53:14 - 00:39:55:10
and I wanted to be able to
00:39:55:10 - 00:39:59:04
medium a medium
as someone who could talk to to,
00:40:00:06 - 00:40:01:07
people from.
00:40:01:07 - 00:40:03:12
Their past.
00:40:03:12 - 00:40:05:06
It's a, it's a training. You did I.
00:40:05:06 - 00:40:07:04
Did a training. Yeah. Okay.
00:40:07:04 - 00:40:08:04
Okay.
00:40:08:04 - 00:40:09:02
Thanks. Yeah.
00:40:09:02 - 00:40:12:02
Out of interest sake and
00:40:12:06 - 00:40:14:02
yeah that was part of my journey
00:40:14:02 - 00:40:17:11
and my grieving process after,
after my mom passed away.
00:40:18:05 - 00:40:22:20
But Yeah, the the lady I was with it.
00:40:23:05 - 00:40:25:05
Yep. Didn't,
00:40:25:05 - 00:40:28:05
see that as being
00:40:28:20 - 00:40:29:22
something that should be done.
00:40:29:22 - 00:40:32:22
She had a very, you know,
00:40:34:08 - 00:40:37:08
Very black and white
view of the Bible and,
00:40:38:07 - 00:40:39:15
That was. Yeah.
00:40:39:15 - 00:40:43:02
Considered maybe, maybe evil or dangerous.
00:40:43:11 - 00:40:44:22
In her mind.
00:40:44:22 - 00:40:47:16
And a few other things that so yeah.
00:40:47:16 - 00:40:50:16
Ultimately after after three years,
00:40:52:15 - 00:40:55:15
we, we stopped seeing each other.
00:40:57:03 - 00:40:58:05
So again
00:40:58:05 - 00:41:01:08
some value
this alignment there and that on.
00:41:01:20 - 00:41:02:03
Okay.
00:41:02:03 - 00:41:04:22
This is I have to ask
were you able to talk to your mom.
00:41:07:01 - 00:41:07:14
Yeah.
00:41:07:14 - 00:41:08:09
Yeah.
00:41:08:09 - 00:41:12:09
so, so yeah that's,
that was a very real thing.
00:41:12:09 - 00:41:15:10
And It's not, it's not like,
00:41:15:10 - 00:41:18:12
you know, you and me sitting in
and having a conversation.
00:41:18:12 - 00:41:20:19
It's a very,
00:41:20:19 - 00:41:22:04
you know, it takes time.
00:41:22:04 - 00:41:25:04
It takes discipline.
00:41:26:13 - 00:41:28:23
And, and and practice.
00:41:28:23 - 00:41:31:23
And you just have to be silent and listen.
00:41:32:05 - 00:41:33:12
yeah. That's that's that's.
00:41:33:12 - 00:41:34:20
Possible.
00:41:34:20 - 00:41:35:21
Thank you for sharing.
00:41:35:21 - 00:41:37:22
My God you are full of surprises.
00:41:37:22 - 00:41:42:24
This and I went to to your home is like
oh there's a piano to play.
00:41:42:24 - 00:41:46:04
Piano. Yes I do. There's so many guitars.
00:41:46:04 - 00:41:46:20
You play guitar.
00:41:46:20 - 00:41:49:20
Yes I do. Okay.
00:41:50:08 - 00:41:52:09
Got a lot of hobbies.
00:41:52:09 - 00:41:54:18
That's awesome.
00:41:54:18 - 00:41:55:20
thank you for sharing that.
00:41:55:20 - 00:41:58:20
So in terms, post divorce,
00:41:59:17 - 00:42:03:00
recovery,
this journey to find yourself again
00:42:03:05 - 00:42:07:14
and who you are and what do you want in
life, how did that come about?
00:42:07:14 - 00:42:12:01
It sounds like you're being consciously
working on that.
00:42:12:06 - 00:42:13:06
Yeah. Well, sometimes.
00:42:13:06 - 00:42:16:05
Sometimes consciously, sometimes not.
00:42:16:05 - 00:42:17:08
awesome.
00:42:17:08 - 00:42:18:20
Where are you in life?
00:42:18:20 - 00:42:21:06
And other than, other than that peace.
00:42:21:06 - 00:42:22:20
Your your daughters are doing well.
00:42:22:20 - 00:42:23:19
My daughters are doing,
00:42:25:21 - 00:42:26:02
yeah.
00:42:26:02 - 00:42:27:21
Like financially stable.
00:42:27:21 - 00:42:28:21
My businesses.
00:42:28:21 - 00:42:31:12
It's doing well. So.
00:42:31:12 - 00:42:34:04
So yeah. I'm I'm a nice.
00:42:34:04 - 00:42:34:21
That's fine.
00:42:34:21 - 00:42:37:21
Okay.
00:42:37:23 - 00:42:40:04
So awesome.
00:42:40:04 - 00:42:43:03
Thank you for sharing. And,
00:42:43:03 - 00:42:46:20
it seems to me that you.
00:42:47:13 - 00:42:49:23
You've been
00:42:49:23 - 00:42:52:05
seeking,
00:42:52:05 - 00:42:55:14
happiness, contentment,
and ultimately love.
00:42:58:11 - 00:43:00:20
would you say
00:43:00:20 - 00:43:03:07
that's your that's your journey, and,
00:43:03:07 - 00:43:06:07
you are at this place?
00:43:08:01 - 00:43:09:03
no, I, I don't think I'm, like,
00:43:09:03 - 00:43:13:01
at the end of a road
in, in the journey or anything, I think.
00:43:13:01 - 00:43:18:00
Yeah, life is, you know,
you're always you're always improving.
00:43:18:00 - 00:43:21:00
You're always developing,
learning something new.
00:43:21:24 - 00:43:24:03
So, so yeah there's, there's still a long.
00:43:24:03 - 00:43:25:08
Way to go.
00:43:25:08 - 00:43:28:08
I just a student of this life.
00:43:29:23 - 00:43:33:06
so to the audience who,
00:43:33:20 - 00:43:39:20
whether they're debating to leave
or stay their marriage
00:43:40:17 - 00:43:43:05
because they're not happy
and maybe they haven't
00:43:43:05 - 00:43:46:12
been happy for a long time,
they felt this long loneliness
00:43:47:20 - 00:43:50:01
in this marriage.
00:43:50:01 - 00:43:52:07
Or someone who are going through this
00:43:52:07 - 00:43:56:05
divorce journey in the thick of divorce
negotiation.
00:43:56:05 - 00:43:59:05
Things are getting ugly and real
00:44:00:06 - 00:44:03:06
and there is a lot of pain.
00:44:03:07 - 00:44:06:00
what advice would you give them?
00:44:06:00 - 00:44:06:10
Okay.
00:44:06:10 - 00:44:09:10
I guess it depends where they are.
00:44:10:14 - 00:44:13:11
I'd say if things are getting ugly,
00:44:13:11 - 00:44:17:12
I would say try to, you know,
even though your, your
00:44:18:05 - 00:44:21:05
in the process of ending things,
try to still,
00:44:24:06 - 00:44:27:06
Look at it as a partnership that,
00:44:27:18 - 00:44:30:18
You and your, your ex
00:44:31:04 - 00:44:33:09
are trying to do what's best for the kids.
00:44:33:09 - 00:44:36:03
Try to be,
00:44:36:03 - 00:44:39:03
the two of you against the problem.
00:44:40:15 - 00:44:40:23
Yeah.
00:44:40:23 - 00:44:42:16
Still, still look out for yourself.
00:44:42:16 - 00:44:46:22
Try to get the best the,
the best deal that you can
00:44:47:23 - 00:44:51:22
but yeah you could communicate
and be reasonable.
00:44:51:22 - 00:44:55:00
Try to not. Yeah. Yeah. Not
00:44:56:04 - 00:44:58:05
do anything
00:44:58:05 - 00:45:01:05
motivated by anger and.
00:45:01:22 - 00:45:02:18
Yeah.
00:45:02:18 - 00:45:04:09
And yeah it is frustrate.
00:45:04:09 - 00:45:06:13
Divorce is a really frustrating thing.
00:45:06:13 - 00:45:11:06
It feels like, you know, you're
running into brick walls all the time.
00:45:11:06 - 00:45:14:06
Yeah. You know, you don't have enough,
00:45:14:12 - 00:45:16:17
you know, friends on your side. You.
00:45:16:17 - 00:45:17:04
Yeah.
00:45:17:04 - 00:45:18:23
You're losing friends. Yeah.
00:45:18:23 - 00:45:20:22
You're you're just so isolated.
00:45:20:22 - 00:45:21:23
You're just by yourself.
00:45:21:23 - 00:45:25:06
And, so. In this island and so. Yeah.
00:45:25:06 - 00:45:28:06
Yeah, just everything is drifting away.
00:45:28:11 - 00:45:30:09
For. Real. Right? When you're in that.
00:45:30:09 - 00:45:32:01
Yeah, yeah. You you.
00:45:32:01 - 00:45:33:15
And it's a big transition.
00:45:33:15 - 00:45:34:00
Huge.
00:45:34:00 - 00:45:38:16
But, Yeah, I think just just know
that life gets, life gets better.
00:45:39:19 - 00:45:40:17
yeah. There.
00:45:40:17 - 00:45:43:01
You know, there's life after.
00:45:43:01 - 00:45:45:03
Life after. Yeah. Yeah yeah.
00:45:45:03 - 00:45:47:21
Life. That's right. Stuff.
00:45:47:21 - 00:45:50:15
Yeah. That's after. Okay.
00:45:50:15 - 00:45:54:04
I love the idea of to against the problem.
00:45:54:18 - 00:45:58:08
I think this is if,
if everyone like if most people can get
00:45:59:03 - 00:46:01:18
here, I think we can go a long way.
00:46:03:03 - 00:46:03:21
I love that.
00:46:03:21 - 00:46:06:02
And I'm going to ask this question
00:46:06:02 - 00:46:09:02
because, you know, some of some,
some of the clients will ask,
00:46:09:04 - 00:46:11:19
what if the other side
00:46:11:19 - 00:46:16:06
is not on the same page with you,
with your philosophy or approach,
00:46:16:06 - 00:46:20:05
this collaborative approach
that we're together against this problem?
00:46:21:15 - 00:46:25:16
what if they're super aggressive
or, silent
00:46:26:04 - 00:46:29:04
and not really talking to you?
00:46:29:11 - 00:46:32:02
I don't know, I and
00:46:32:02 - 00:46:34:12
yeah.
00:46:34:12 - 00:46:37:01
I haven't been in,
00:46:37:01 - 00:46:40:02
but I have had a very silent, wife.
00:46:41:03 - 00:46:44:20
I thought, you know, that was more
before we started this this process.
00:46:44:20 - 00:46:47:08
Yeah.
00:46:47:08 - 00:46:49:04
and I didn't figure that out.
00:46:49:04 - 00:46:52:19
You know, I,
I would say do your best to talk to them.
00:46:54:07 - 00:46:56:03
And if you can't just, just do
00:46:56:03 - 00:46:59:08
the best that you
can, you know, you try to be
00:47:00:10 - 00:47:02:05
your best self,
00:47:02:05 - 00:47:05:13
because you can't,
you can never control another person.
00:47:05:19 - 00:47:09:12
you can't, you know, grab them
by the shoulders and say, please love me.
00:47:09:15 - 00:47:12:10
No, no, no. Yeah. police work with, The.
00:47:12:10 - 00:47:16:10
you know, please think the best interests
and, of the children and.
00:47:16:10 - 00:47:19:12
Yeah, you can never make another person
be the person that you want them to be.
00:47:19:12 - 00:47:22:12
You can only be your best self.
00:47:22:18 - 00:47:25:14
And I think I think when you're
00:47:25:14 - 00:47:28:16
working on being your best self
than than your best part.
00:47:28:16 - 00:47:30:07
Now show up.
00:47:30:07 - 00:47:31:17
Oh my God.
00:47:31:17 - 00:47:33:22
Drop the knife.
00:47:33:22 - 00:47:36:21
This is this clearly and awesome.
00:47:36:21 - 00:47:39:21
Thank you so much Jeff
for just sharing so vulnerably.
00:47:39:24 - 00:47:42:24
I know this can be hard to share.
00:47:42:24 - 00:47:44:23
super
00:47:44:23 - 00:47:49:12
happy and inspired by this new journey
you are about to embark on.
00:47:50:01 - 00:47:51:14
And, so.
00:47:51:14 - 00:47:54:09
And thanks again Jeff. Okay. Yeah.
00:47:54:09 - 00:47:55:12
thank you, thank you.